Interview with Loren Reid Johnson Part 1

Channel 9 Interviewer: Good morning. Its nice to meet you. What did you learn from meditation?

Loren: Well, I learned first to focus my attention on the center of the center of the body. And, from there, the center expanded to surround my entire body. As I continued to focus on the center, I saw my refined human body and became that -- continuing to focus on the center. This happened again and again, all the way until I reached my refinest Dhammakaya body.

Interviewer: And, how did you feel when you first reached your own nucleus in your stomach?

Loren: It felt very cool and calm and a very deep, expanding sense of joy... happiness.

Interviewer: And how did you feel after you completed all 18 bodies and reached Dhammakaya?

Loren: Well, each body became less and less dense. So, we begin with the human body which is the most crude and mundane, and then it becomes more and more refined until it reaches the most refined Dhammakaya which is the least dense. It totally transcends any sense of personal ego.

Interviewer: And, did you feel that what you saw was imagination or reality?

Loren: Very little imagination. It happened automatically. I just focused on the center of the center and it appeared by itself.

Interviewer: And did you see hell or heaven?

Loren: Yes.

Interviewer: And what did you see there?

Loren: Well, many things. In hell, I saw many levels of different punishments. I saw different people in one level who were being attacked by a dog -- very mean and angry. And, they were trying to escape -- climbing a tree with thorns. Also, like vultures were trying to attack them and they would fall and then the dog would get them.

And, I would look at the nucleus of the people -- very dark. In the nucleus I would see why they were there -- because of sexual misconduct. And I would see lots of shame and guilt and mental poison.

And then we went to another level and I saw a large caldron ... Large! People were inside it. Hot! With what looked like a very hot liquid or melted metal like lead. And they are inside, burning. And some had to drink this very smelly -- very bad liquid.

And I look at their nucleus and I see that most had drunk alcohol. Also some drugs and things, but mostly alcohol. And they drink the liquid and it cooks their organs -- especially the brain. It fries the brain.

And then, in hell, the worst thing I saw -- below the 8th level -- below the murders and all the liars and thieves -- I saw the false teachers. And they had blindfolds. They couldn't see and they were running into each other -- chaos and lots of torment. And their bodies were burned dark like they had been scalded with acid. There was a dead smell -- a very thick smell.

And then I became the refined Dhammakaya and then we saw heaven. And there we saw the opposite, really. Very luminous -- very beautiful. The center of the beings was very radiant. In hell the beings had a very dark, cloudy nucleus. In heaven I saw them very radiant and glowing like a crystal sphere. And, I could look into the center and see why they were there -- all the meritorious things, the many good deeds they did for the people.

Some were on earth; some flying through the sky. I saw many in trees. But, the main difference between heaven and hell was what I saw at the center of the beings -- either evil deeds or good, meritorious deeds.

Interviewer: So, you saw both sides -- hell and heaven and the good things and bad things that people do. And, did you see Nirvana?

Loren: Yes, I did. It goes beyond what we think of as earth and water and fire. All of these things, I saw none of. I saw countless saints and Buddhas -- as far as the eye could see. And they were very very radiant, with glowing centers. I focused on them and I could see all the good things they did to make them so brilliant.

But, the most luminous, in the center, was Buddha -- the Primordial Buddha -- surrounded by Buddhas. And, I asked for permission, and I touched Lord Buddha on the leg. And it felt very very cold, like ice.

Interviewer: What do you think were the good points that you got from meditation?

Loren: Well, I feel that this particular style of meditation, Dhammakaya, is a very very direct way to experience directly my highest self.

Interviewer: And, when you are back in America, what will you do?

Loren: Well, I plan on teaching Dhammakaya. I have clients that I practice yoga, meditation and massage with already, and I believe that sharing Dhammakaya with them will help them to help themselves.

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